The Golden Rule is an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule_%28ethics%29
So my last post was very religious. Sorry to those of you who take issue. I have decided since that post to leave the church tell they can get their shit together. But you know it's not just them, with this insanity. What ever happened to the golden rule? You know the basic concept that all major religions and philosophy's teach in some way or another. When did we get so into ourselves, and so far away from each other?
I have a hard time with this "take care of number one" ideal people want to live in. Isn't life better when we take care of each other too? Sure there are times to be selfish and "remove the plank" from your eye first, but why do we let each other fall off cliffs?
I recently have been watching and reading about the life of Freddie Mercury. What a gift to the world he was. I love his music, his charisma, his love of life and love of freedom. It was such a shame that he waited tell his death bed to share his issue with the world. Many would who were just not knoladgeable about it would have liked to have helped him and the AIDS fight sooner (I was only 11, but still). In his final statement he said this:
"Following the enormous conjecture in the press over the last two weeks, I wish to confirm that I have been tested HIV positive and have AIDS. I felt it correct to keep this information private to date to protect the privacy of those around me. However, the time has come now for my friends and fans around the world to know the truth and I hope that everyone will join with me, my doctors, and all those worldwide in the fight against this terrible disease.My privacy has always been very special to me and I am famous for my lack of interviews. Please understand this policy will continue."
Of course we should continue that fight even after he died, but what if he had come out earlier about his status? I'm not saying he would have lived had he helped raise money to fight HIV/AIDS. But, given more famous attention, he could have made this a much larger issue years earlier, and helped a lot of minds get use to the idea that AIDS is everyone's problem, and that it should be everyone's responsibility to ensure this disease is stopped someday.
I love Freddie's music and much of his resolve as he says in Bicycle Race
"I don't wanna be the President of America You say smile I say cheese Cartier I say please Income tax I say Jesus I don't wanna be a candidate for Vietnam or Watergate Cause all I wanna do is
Bicycle bicycle bicycle
There was an over all theme to the song that all he wanted was to be happy with his life with no consequences and not be the "candidate" for anything. Don't we all. I wish life was like that; with every part of me. But it just isn't. We HAVE to take care of each other. We all do better, and live, and love longer when we do.
His posthumous contribution is well noted. The Mercury Phoenix Trust I just wish he had it in him to stand up for the AIDS community and the GLBT community before his death bed. The world was a different place for him, but he would have been accepted and loved regardless by those who matter. It is not my wish to put down his want of privacy. I do respect it. I just wish we in the world had taught him better. We should teach our youth not just caution, but compassion. Their comes a time when even our privacy needs to be put in the back seat for the greater good. I'm not saying lets invite "Big-Brother" into our lives, but I am saying to use some good judgment when it comes to opening ourselves to others. We never know who we could have helped if we just shared a little more of ourselves.
I don’t have the original IM that started this conversation with my Dad, but this is the blog I sent to him that started the whole thing.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allison-kilkenny/catholic-church-threatens_b_355127.html I sent this to my Dad in the hopes that the church would never do this, and it was just a rag and not real news.I have since found out that it is true.
I am posing this in the hopes that this debate can be solved by someone smarter then either of us.I hate to fight with my Dad, but to me his point is nowhere to be found.
William; very blue
This was spell checked and the email of my dad was taken out.
On Thu, 11/12/09, EDGAR wrote:
From: EDGAR
Subject: We chatted about an issue earlier today, 11/12/2009!
To: "William Edgar
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 4:13 PM
Will,
We chatted about an issue earlier today. You gave me a link to someone's blog; the person was angry with the Catholic Church because she claimed it would not feed disadvantaged homosexuals. (At least I think that was her issue.) I read a blog called GetReligion.com which reports on how the news media treats religious issues. If you are interested go to this link http://www.getreligion.org/?p=21214 I have not read the entire blog nor any of its other links. But I did read enough to see the issue is one where the local government is trying to force the Church to change its defination of marriage. The attempt is a blatant effort of government to breach the firewall set up by our constitution framers. Read it for yourself: "Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The amendment keep government from enacting laws making a religion or against the free exercise of religion. Take note: it says nothing that would keep religion from trying to influence government.
Peace to your house.
Ed
In Him we live and move and have our being.
Re: We chatted about an issue earlier today, 11/12/2009!
Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:32 PM
From:"William Edgar
To:"EDGAR
Dad,
Wow you totally missed what I was upset about.I was upset that the church would stop feeding homeless.That to me was the issue. That kind of thing would be a direct affront to what Jesus taught.To "Love your neighbor as yourself".
The issue to me was not that the church chooses not to recognize my freedom of religion and chooses instead to impose (along with other Christians) there religion on me a Gay Christian through legislation. Which I sure you know where I stand on freedom of religion.If you want to discus how I feel about the marriage issue just know that I am on the side of freedom of religion for Gay Christians and indeed all peaceful religions.I would be just as against someone saying you do not have the right to let kids drink wine at mass, because its against someone Else's religion to drink.That is wrong.It is also wrong to say "you may believe in marriage as a Gay Christian, but you have to follow my rules to my religion and if you don't I'll force it upon you.This issue has always (to me and my fellow Gay Christians) a matter of the 1st amendment My "Freedom of religion".anyway to tell the truth the government has no business dictating religion.That is for religion to do.What I mean is a "marriage" should be between you and God and your lover.Tax benefits and the like should be given to Cesar (the government) to deal with.
On Mon, 11/16/09, EDGAR wrote:
From: EDGAR
Subject: As usual, as soon as I write a response I find some one who has already written a better one.
To: "William Edgar
Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 9:59 PM
Will,
As usual, as soon as I write a response I find some one who has already written a better one. I have provided two links if you are interested.
The first is the Washington Post article by Petula Dvorak claiming the Catholic Church is depriving disadvantaged people of food in WashingtonDC.
The second is a link from a blog named "GETRELIGION.com" The emphasis on this blog is to call the media to account for errors and biases in their writtings.
You might want to read Petula Dvorak's article first. But before you let her form your entire opinion, read the blog on "GETRELIGION.com"
Peace to your house.
Dad
In Him we live and move and have our being.
Re: As usual, as soon as I write a response I find some one who has already written a better one.
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:05 AM
From:"William Edgar
To:"EDGAR
I will quote:
"The issue, once again, is the announcement by the Catholic Archdiocese of Washington, D.C., to stop accepting city government money for social-work programs rather than change its doctrines to fit in with the District’s plans to legalize gay marriages."
This came from the "Get Religion.org" article.
Again I must state that the doctrine of the church is to help the needy.That was Jesus's doctrine too.To say they HAVE to change in order to keep feeding homeless and downtrodden is sinful and selfish.Our first priory is to Jesus and then to love our neighbor as ourselves.Just because gay marriage is legal is not a reason to stop feeding homeless.Imagine if Jesus said "well Rome has legalized gay marriage, I guess I won’t feed the homeless any more or heal the sick because some of the money me and my dad get from carpentry comes from Romans who enacted this, and now that money is dirty."It's sick.
The issue is and never will be gay marriage.The issue is that the church would stop taking money to help others for ANY reason.Is money dirty? Yes.It can come from all kinds of places.It can even come from divorces, but does the priest say "don't put that money in the basket, it came from your divorce settlement!!!"No they don't.Why, because it’s what we do with the money that matters.We do good.Starving others for our selfish principles is sick and a sin.
I love you Dad,
William
On Tue, 11/17/09, EDGAR wrote:
From: EDGAR
Subject: The strings that the givers attach to their money that makes their money dirty!
To: "William Edgar
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 1:03 PM
Hi Son, Will,
In a debate each side present its position with facts that can be verified and opinions regarding the meaning of the facts. Because opinions interpret facts, they are biased by nature. Having said that, I agree with you that one of the callings Jesus makes to the Church is to help the needy. Defending the truth is also one of His calls. Preaching the Good New that there is eternal life available and this life is only its beginning is also critical.
But, if the government requires the Church to set aside the truths Jesus taught in order to get government funds to feed the poor, those funds must be refused. (The government will always be able to find some group to give that money, no matter what strings it attaches.)
What then does the Church do to feed the poor? It is then left to begging for money from those who will give without the dirty strings; namely, those strings that would force it to ignore the truth of God's teachings. The strings that the givers attach to their money that makes their money dirty! Those strings are what the Church must consider and refuse.
Peace to your house Dad
In Him we live and move and have our being.
Re: The strings that the givers attach to their money that makes their money dirty!
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 4:04 PM
From: "William Edgar
To: EDGAR
You are dead wrong. Jesus would be sad at your stance. There is no excuse to put one of Jesus's values over another. It may hurt, but as I stated before I have never seen a priest throw money back at a divorcee because the money came from a divorce settlement. The church is against divorce but yet will take money from someone who has had one and is getting money though a settlement. You can't have it both ways. Either you are hot or cold, but if you are luke-warm he will vomit you out his mouth. It is WRONG to set aside one belief for another. period. Jesus did not teach his disciples to reject Rome. In fact he said to "give to God what is God's, and to Cesar what is Cesar's". I guess the church doesn't have to give to Cesar, they are above what came out of Jesus's own mouth.
Allowing people to die for your principles obviously says a lot about your principles. Yes, you believe you have truth. But so do others. I have stood up for many views of the Catholic church, but this is wrong and it feels wrong.
This is not a time to be a Pharisee and quote the law, it is a time to be Jesus and do what is right.
Tue, 11/17/09, EDGAR wrote:
From: EDGAR
Subject: RE: The strings that the givers attach to their money that makes their money dirty!
To: "William Edgar
Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 5:22 PM
Son,
You say I am dead wrong. I am sorry that you and I see reality so differently. I stand by what I have written.
Peace to your house.
Ed
In Him we live and move and have our being.
RE: The strings that the givers attach to their money that makes their money dirty!
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:34 AM
From:"William Edgar
To"EDGAR
Well if that is that I would like to leave you with one last comment.
During the inquisition the church was so sure that they were doing God's work they were willing to kill for it.
Again today they are faced with the option to let people die, or stand by church law.
How many must die for them to prove their point? Ten? One hundred? A thousand? A million?When will the death toll be enough to satisfy there lust for the law?
William
On Wed, 11/18/09, EDGAR wrote:
From: EDGAR
Subject: I know that the inquisition occurred.
To: "William Edgar
Dear Son Will,
I know that the inquisition occurred. But, I was not alive at the time of the inquisition. Neither you nor I have killed anyone; nor have we rejoiced in the death of anyone. What's more, I know of no one in the hierarchy of the Church that has! So, I am unwilling to accuse them of such a crime. It may happen that the government, for its laws sake, will kill 10 or 100 or 1,000,000 people who won't accept government moral teaching. That will be an inquisition that is more likely; but still very unlikely, after all this is America.
Today and for the future, the Church will continue to get money by begging; it will use that money to support the needs of the poor. Those who respond to that begging may try to attached strings to their money; I guess to white wash what guilt they may feel. I am not in a position to judge their souls if they are behaving like that. I have enough other temptations to deal with out encouraging rash judgment (a sin about which I am frequently tempted.)
I will continue to support the poor in ways of which you are unaware. But, the truth is no one will die because the Church is unwilling to take money from the government, money with anti-Catholic (anti-Jesus' teachings) strings attached. AND, the government will simply find someone else to give our money to; the poor will be fed! Take note: The government money does not come out of nothingness. It comes from the blood, sweat and tears of those who earn money. It has that money because, along with others, you and I pay taxes. On the other hand, the money got by the Church has comes from begging. It comes from the good will (charity) of those who will give up what is their's by right of work. No one is force to give!
As for the law, the government imposes laws on us and if we disobey, we may be subject to the consequences. That is what it means to be in the USA. As for the laws of the Church: Belonging to the Catholic Church is a voluntary matter. Those who wish to continue to volunteer as church members ought to be willing to submit to its discipline. Otherwise they are cheating. But, any adult can chose to leave the Church! Children may be restrained by their parents, but when they come of age, they should make their own decision about the voluntary membership in the Catholic Church. That is what it means to be an adult Catholic.
This has been a long email, if I bored or angered you, I am sorry. My intentions are only to respond to your emails. If you would rather I did not respond, I can't do that.
Peace to your house.
Dad
In Him we live and move and have our being.
Re: I know that the inquisition occurred.
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:35 AM
From:"William Edgar
To:"EDGAR
The government is not taking their money away.They are refusing it.
How many pregnant women will die the day they have to sleep in the cold because the homeless shelter is closed and they can’t make it to another.Is that the government fault? No it is the people who refuse to helps fault.All that is stopping them is that they believe that the lives of the homeless matter less then gay marriage.How many will die dad? Answer the question.How many will die because they care more about a law then life.What would Jesus do?If Jesus was a worker at the shelter?I have the answer.He would open it anyway.He would take what money he could to preserve life.The church cares more about marriage then life.They are not being asked to stop believing as they believe (only gay Christians are being asked that, and they are being forced to believe as others do as they are not allowed there freedom of religion).How many will die, how many excuses do you think Jesus would make to allow for the deaths of the homeless and sick.? How many directions do you think he will point so that it is not his fault?How many will die for the church’s selfishness?The crime is simple: We the church believe in marriage between a man and a woman but when it comes down to it if we must choose between that and the lives of the homeless, we choose marriage.Life is not as important.How F'n crazy is that.Wake up dad!!
Don't blame the Government for the CHOICE of the church.The Government did not make the choice for them.They did it all on there own.
If the church does this I make this vow now, I will not enter another Catholic church until the church can prove to me that they care more for the lives of the needy, poor, downtrodden, then they do about government laws.
As I was taught in the church, there is no greater gift then this: to give ones life for another.
The church is dead wrong when it tries to pass the blame and ignore this passage.They will be judged as I will be some day.As for me and my house I will serve the lord by helping others, loving others, and preaching His word: to love him as the first commandment and my neighbor as myself.Allowing people do die for my beliefs in God, is not Godly.
I love you dad, please see the light on this one.I hate wiping my feet and walking away.
William
Wed, 11/18/09, EDGAR wrote:
From: EDGAR:
Subject: RE: I know that the inquisition occurred.
To: "William Edgar
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 4:03 PM
My dear Son Will,
I have read you emails and understand what you think is happening. But that is not happening! No one will die because the Church will not take government money. Pregnant women will still get the care provided by government funds. Disadvantaged folk, including homosexuals, atheist, Catholic, etc. will still get government funded care. The government has and will find other groups that will do what it wants done under the terms it wants. No one will die because the Church will not operate the way the government wants it to. What shocks me it this blatant effort by the government to ignore its duty to protect religious liberty. For the protection of religion the government must abide by the 1st Amendment to our Constitution. The God-given rights recognized in that amendment are being threatened by government interference.
It appears that the most important thing for you is that the Catholic Church must change its stand on homosexual marriages; you are angry because it won't be forced into that change by the government. It seems you are saying, if the Church won't approve of homosexual marriages, all/any other stands the it takes must be wrong too! If that is what you believe, have you forgotten its anti-abortion stand? Continuing in that line of reasoning: Is not the baby's life as important as the mother's, as mine, as yours? What about health care for all, including those in the womb? Is the baby's life a bargaining chip? Is the baby's life of less importance than the health care of other people? I think not.
Nor is your life Will; given a threat against your life, I will stand between you and your attackers. They will have to come over my disabled, unconscious or dead body to get to you. And I would do the same for Ben or any homosexual, male or female. That is the way I love you and Ben.
I am sorry you would make such a rash vow as you stated below. But what ever you do, that does not make any difference in my love for you. I love you!
Peace to your house.
Dad
In Him we live and move and have our being.
Re: I know that the inquisition occurred.
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:38 PM
From:"William Edgar
To:"EDGAR
No.If you remember this conversation started because I was mad the church would give up its most sacred duty, "feed my sheep".You brought up gay marriage. So did the church.This whole debate (to me) is about the church not feeding those in need, because of there petty beliefs.Why do I call those beliefs petty?Because they put Life as a second fiddle.That is where my anger lies.Life is precious.I thought they believed that.But it seems that Life is only precious under certain conditions. If they are willing to give up on there mission for petty reasons then I give up on them and will continue the mission without them.Make it into whatever argument you want, giving up on Jesus's mission he gave to Peter (the first leader of our church after Jesus) is wrong.It may as well drop its anti-abortion stand as it cares more for matters of state then its mission of mercy to those who need it.Mercy knows no bounds, but the Church's mercy seems to have many.
You said this to me in your letter
" Nor is your life Will; given a threat against your life, I will stand between you and your attackers."
I do the same by trying to defend the homeless against the self interests of the high Pharisees of the church.Just as Jesus did.The Pharisees made many excuses as to why Jesus's message of love was blasphemy too.Whether it was gay marriage, or divorce (the true affront to marriage) it would not matter.Jesus would not stop feeding and healing the sick because the money he got was form Rome or the USA .He gave fish and bread to a whole audience.Did they all agree with his beliefs, or did Jesus say "Hey this food is only for those who believe as I do, so if you don't I wont feed anyone here today nor will I take any food from those who don’t believe as I do nor will I give any food from disbelievers to believers because I wont detour from what I believe."
That kind of Jesus makes me sick.I will not worship that God, and it is sad that the church has chosen him.
Just like shift and puzzle they have hoodwinked the people of the church.If you wish to make this a gay issue go right ahead, you speak with blind eyes and deaf ears.Of course some GOOD charity will see what’s going on and take the funding.As a defender of the church I will not defend there stance on "not feeding Jesus's sheep because of ________ (fill in the blank).It is sick, wrong and very sinful.
God have mercy on you and the church of Shift and puzzle.
I will come to your party after your "sacred marriage vows" that mean more then feeding the homeless, but if the church gives up its mission, I want nothing to do with your sermons, until the church regains its sanity.I figure they will 2, 3 hundred years from now, like they did when they apologized for the inquisition
I prey peace on your house, and sanity for hopefully OUR church.
William
Wed, 11/18/09, EDGAR wrote:
From: EDGAR
Subject: RE: I know that the inquisition occurred.
To: "William Edgar
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 5:38 PM
Dear Son Will,
I hope someday we will be able to revisit this matter. Today our conversation has taken a very bad turn, one I was not expecting and of which I am surprised. I know you are hurt and I am sorry that is the case. I don't want you to feel bad, but apparently I have contributed to just that. By nature I am one who tries to fix things and people. But my clumsy efforts at logic have failed in our conversation. In my hard headedness I thought I was speaking clearly about the Church's role when dealing with the government, but apparently I have failed. I am unwilling to contribute to further alienating you from the Church and thinking unkindly of me. It would be better for me if we reframed from further discussions of this matter. I am too upset with myself to continue.
I wish you and Ben the peace of Jesus.
Dad
In Him we live and move and have our being.
I understand and love you Dad
Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:46 AM
From:"William Edgar
To:"EDGAR
I understand.Thanks Dad.It's not your fault I feel this way.
Ok. So I just finished this book for the first time. I love this series!! I have had a fascination with Mab ruler of the winter court and, the Queen of air and Winter ever sense I played Mercutio in Romeo and Juliet in high school. “Ah then I see queen Mab hath been with you”.
Anyhoo I digress.
This was a simply an amazing quest. Everything form twink werewolves to Centaurus, this is a D&D;, LARPer, Fanboy, and SiFi homos friend. Dresden has plenty of his home grown attractiveness for the conservative in us and the “Well I Was going to settle down with a porn video and a bottle of baby oil, but I really don’t have enough for two” for the “I want the unattainable” in many of us.
Please read this, and comment on it if you disagree or think I’m lame. I won’t be offended.
"As I was going up the stair I saw a man who wasn’t there He wasn’t there again today Oh, how I wish he’d go away... When I came home last night at three The man was waiting there for me But when I looked around the hall I couldn’t see him there at all! Go away, go away, don’t you come back any more! Go away, go away, and please don’t slam the door... (Slam!) Last night I saw upon the stair A little man who wasn’t there He wasn’t there again today Oh, how I wish he’d go away"
I was watching a movie last night and this poem was brought up. Strange, I never looked at it the way I did today at work. It seems to me now that the man who is and is not there is fear. Fear like when the town’s folk of Frankenstein came barring pitch forks and torches. It is fear of the unknown. “Is it good for us? Is it bad? I don’t know lets kill it”. It’s that pesky demon on our shoulder that won’t shut up. It’s the angel on the other shoulder too. It’s the dream we refuse to acknowledge. It’s the fear we won’t face. Why do people still subscribe to this fear? Does fear drive this fear? We are not meant to live in fear but to learn from it, right?
The people I love still love me; the people I thought loved me, have turned against me. Even I did. It seems today that I remember a time that I was whole or at least better put together. What does one do? Where to start? I had friends at work, which I felt moderately close to. They hurt and betrayed me. The retributions have been endless. I suppose it could have something to do with me being gay. Probably just that I am too neurotic. Trust. How am I to place it in others? I feel as though I’ve lost nearly all moral compass to navigate my way through the jerks and jerkettes. When did people become so stubborn and vengeful? I am culpable to this to I suppose. Maybe I have not been willing to listen enough. So is it my fault? Did I do something to bring this “Karma” down on me? How does it go? Do unto others and you want them to do to you? Does anyone believe in that anymore?
Here it is. We are all at fault and we all have different ideas. We are all selfish. What we need to do is forgive, and then let it go. I’m tired of old grudges. I’m Tired.
Love My thoughts are all messed up about this. I need an explanation. I understand the majority-Christians look at love as between a man and a woman. Of course they also believe in the more common love; that of parents loving their children and “loving one's neighbor as yourself”. They also believe in the love of God. But they seem to set aside a different love for thier spouses. That’s the love I need an explanation for. I need to understand how that kind of love could not apply to Homosexuals such as myself. I am not a bad person, nor is my boyfriend. When I look in his eyes I say “wow I love you, just control your gas when we are around guests”. Who could say that isn’t love? Isn’t that special love just the ability to love someone for who and what they are, no matter what? For better or for worse, as some say. Do they think two men- or women- are physically incapable of this?
What is it they are thinking? Looking at the Christian Bible it clearly says “Love bears all things”. Are they saying this verse means nothing when dealing with men loving men or women loving women? Are they saying “love only bears the things we wish it too”?
Then there’s sex. Why are the majority-Christians so concerned with sex? Do they not know there is more to life and marriage than sex? Do they sit around and picture what others do in bed? Do they genuinely say to themselves “Gee I wonder what Sally and Fred are doing in the sack tonight? I do hope it's God approved.” I don’t think so. But it seems they do sit around and say “Gee I wonder what Sam and Fred are doing in bed. It’s probably not God approved.” Are they just big pervs? Really! Isn’t that some sort of sin of lust to try and picture others in bed? Not that I’m that against porn, but aren’t they against it?
I read an article recently about a pastor named Ed Yong of the Fellowship church in Dallas Texas. He is encouraging the married people of his church to have sex for 7 days to “re-claim sex and marriage”. Did they loose the sanctity of marriage somehow? Did the big gay monster come to thier church and take thier freedom of religion from them? So what is love to them? Is it only between a man and a woman? Is it just the sex they have? Who defines Love? Human kind? Is that it? Is it God? Cause if it is I would imagine love being a lot larger then just the act of sex.
Seriously though, if majority-Christians truly cared one smidge about marriage they would try to do something about divorce. You know the whole “remove the plank form your own eye before the attempt to get one out of your neighbors"?
Anyhoo, I will write a bit about myself in a later blog. I just wanted to get this out and hopefully get a few responses. Feel free to be angry or happy about what I say. All thoughts are welcome.William
I'm just a mild mannered Facilities guy waiting to get my super powers. Maybe I'll just take your's!!! GRRR BAAAAAAAAA But, really just some guy, I have a wonderful man, cat, and computer. Now how do I make them all combine?
